tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1214200231755915759.post8356785798554897448..comments2019-07-09T12:50:05.849-07:00Comments on Madison and Me: The Civil War and Reconstruction - Amendments 13-15 (and the 24th), Plus a Special TreatMadison and Mehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13154644969245661669noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1214200231755915759.post-23963504841323402252015-09-28T12:18:35.580-07:002015-09-28T12:18:35.580-07:00Thanks for being part of the discussion, Riley!Thanks for being part of the discussion, Riley!Madison and Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13154644969245661669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1214200231755915759.post-5175329552054323212015-09-28T06:42:32.378-07:002015-09-28T06:42:32.378-07:00Ahhh, that's what you meant. Thanks for the cl...Ahhh, that's what you meant. Thanks for the clarification.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1214200231755915759.post-19006306901177690592015-09-24T17:03:27.910-07:002015-09-24T17:03:27.910-07:00Thanks, Mike. There must be a story behind that n...Thanks, Mike. There must be a story behind that name....Madison and Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13154644969245661669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1214200231755915759.post-53444133827046282452015-09-24T16:31:48.491-07:002015-09-24T16:31:48.491-07:00Banned User is Mike Pedrotty. :-)Banned User is Mike Pedrotty. :-)Banned Userhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15600850551018975572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1214200231755915759.post-5346359913246871532015-09-24T16:28:45.926-07:002015-09-24T16:28:45.926-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Banned Userhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15600850551018975572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1214200231755915759.post-45849704055701809992015-09-24T16:28:37.244-07:002015-09-24T16:28:37.244-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Banned Userhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15600850551018975572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1214200231755915759.post-82113342536443431042015-09-24T15:36:04.508-07:002015-09-24T15:36:04.508-07:00Hmmm....not sure who "Banned User" is, b...Hmmm....not sure who "Banned User" is, but thanks for chiming in!<br />Madison and Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13154644969245661669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1214200231755915759.post-70251296072247229882015-09-24T15:25:59.723-07:002015-09-24T15:25:59.723-07:00"Notherwise?"
My phone thinks notherwis..."Notherwise?"<br /><br />My phone thinks notherwise is a word. And apparently one that I am more likely to use than "not."Banned Userhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15600850551018975572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1214200231755915759.post-64833984845011438462015-09-24T15:22:43.072-07:002015-09-24T15:22:43.072-07:00Good stuff, gentlemen.
From my perspective, th...Good stuff, gentlemen. <br /><br />From my perspective, the best reason to retire what most people refer to as the "Confederate Flag, " really the battle standard of the Army of Northern Virginia, is that it does not signify Southern culture - whatever that is. It signifies, in its original use (as DJ points out), armed insurrection against the United States in defense of the institution of slavery. Read the articles of secession of each of the confederate states and you will see slavery explicitly referenced. It signifies, in its later use, explicit, obstinate obstruction of federal efforts at desegregation during the civil rights movement. The flag had already disappeared into the museum once after the Civil War, and was resurrected by segregationists in the 1950s and 1960s. Only then did it start to fly over state houses and courthouses and universities and schools, as a symbol not of Southern heritage, but of segregationist hatred and defiance. <br /><br />I hear this cant of "heritage not hate" is either disingenuous or poorly informed. It symbolizes a heritage OF hate. Either treasonous rebellion or racist segregation. <br /><br />There are indeed many wonderful things about the South, but the Confederate battle standard is notherwise the best symbol of those things. I agree that a ban would be inappropriate and counterproductive, but its official use should be terminated. <br /><br />My $.02.Banned Userhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15600850551018975572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1214200231755915759.post-78379889088633204022015-09-23T15:50:38.330-07:002015-09-23T15:50:38.330-07:00Greetings, Riley - this is Duane. Let me clarify m...Greetings, Riley - this is Duane. Let me clarify my meaning with regards to the "retirement" of the Confederate flag.<br /><br />I am also an enthusiastic advocate of the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment. I would not support in any form a legislative ban on display or use of the Confederate flag, nor would I trust the current administration with anything resembling that. Indeed, in the wake of the Charleston shooting there were examples of overreach which troubled me. For example, Apple pulled several strategy games from the App Store which used the flag, games which were educational in nature and used the flags in their proper historical context. By all means, I support the use of the flag in its historical context, and would oppose any ban of it, for to ban it would endanger us for the reasons you mentioned, as well as let us forget the evils which it was raised to defend.<br /><br />What I do want, however, is for Southerners to - voluntarily - stop embracing the flag as a *modern* symbol of their culture. By necessity, this means whitewashing the flag, as well as the CSA, which was, inarguably, designed for the purpose of creating, maintaining, and extending a slave empire, a design which they were ready to accomplish by breaking apart the United States of America for that sake. The South is, as a culture, diminished by continuing to crouch in the shadow of the Confederacy, when there is so much from before, and so much after, the Confederacy worthy of exaltation and praise. Rejecting the flag does not mean destroying Southern identity wholesale - far from it. It means cutting down what is, in my eyes, a destructive cultural weed, and allowing a far more wholesome crop to grow in its stead. That is, however, a task which Southerners must elect to do on their own, and nothing that can be forced by the hand of any government.DRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14275903502453970953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1214200231755915759.post-88131341945058573512015-09-23T14:48:34.169-07:002015-09-23T14:48:34.169-07:00Riley: Thanks so much for joining the conversatio...Riley: Thanks so much for joining the conversation! I appreciate you taking the time and putting a lot of thought into commenting here. I'll start by saying that I think you may not have entirely understood Duane's points, but I won't presume to speak for him (though I will notify him so he can respond in his own words). For myself, I would certainly never support a ban on the Confederate flag, especially in the hands of private individuals. It may be my PREFERENCE that they not fly it, but I'd never advocate a ban (like the one in Germany, which bans, under penalty of criminal law, the flying of the Nazi swastika - understandably. The Confederates were certainly misguided, but were no Nazis.). I might tell someone who wants to fly it that I disapprove (and that it makes him look kinda like an idiot, but hey - no law against that!). I do , however, support SC governor Haley and the taking down of the flag on government property. At the very least, it's a symbol of disunity with the other states. And as far as forgetting history, I'd say that's precisely why we have museums, so artifacts like this can be displayed and put in their proper context. Far from forgetting history, it ensures that we never forget. In sum - I support taking the flag down from government property, but not on any sort of legal ban. The flag is part of our collective history and should be studied as such in the proper context. Thanks again, Riley! Looking forward to hearing from you in future posts!Madison and Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13154644969245661669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1214200231755915759.post-5360029330924955682015-09-23T11:25:32.057-07:002015-09-23T11:25:32.057-07:00Adding to that: Duane, with your degree in history...Adding to that: Duane, with your degree in history, you know that if we forget our history, we are in danger of repeating it. If the flag is banned, we could be starting on that path. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1214200231755915759.post-397974912501126182015-09-23T11:19:47.804-07:002015-09-23T11:19:47.804-07:00I would have to respectfully disagree with Duane t...I would have to respectfully disagree with Duane that the Confederate flag must be "confined to the museum and the reenactment." To ban the Confederate flag is to take away the right to freely express yourself, a right that goes back to the days of the founding fathers. If a legislation was passed to ban the flag, we would truly be no better than Mr. Roof burning the American flag. We would be taking away the basic rights of this country. When you think about it, the Confederates actually gave an example of how America was created: Standing up for what you believe in and fighting for it if necessary. Granted, they were sadly misguided, but the case remains that they were quite patriotic. I do not want to seem on the side of the Confederates-I am proud to be from the North. Some people, by the same token, could be proud to be from the south, but not to the same degree as Roof. To take away free use of the flag is to take away that pride. It is simply not American.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com